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Totally can relate. I left the UU after feeling completely gaslit from my minister and the wider congregation on the trans issue. My concerns were considered intolerable and I had no choice but to withdraw from attending. I am no longer a member.

I tried Quakers but that's just the same. To be honest, this is just the entire western world now. I'm hoping 2024 brings change though and some deeper conversations and I certainly welcome your lawsuit in this effort and wish you all the luck. Standing with you!

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It's taken over the United Church of Christ too. I feel so alienated and betrayed by the beautiful little church I once loved.

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Betrayal is the word for all of this

So many institutions, people, politicians, former friends, have betrayed me with this lie. This world that demands me to lie to keep my job and social accounts is not a world in which I want to live. I will not shut up about it.

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The only people it hasn't taken over is conservatives.

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It hasn't taken over radical feminists either, they've been fighting it since the 00's when far leftists began insisting that trans women were actual women and sex work was work and white feminists were all racists. Check out some of them here:

https://reduxx.info

https://uncommongroundmedia.com

https://www.womenarehuman.com

https://4w.pub

https://womensdeclarationusa.com

https://womensliberationfront.org

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The radfems started fighting this in the 1970's. Only started getting taken seriously in the 00's, but started much sooner.

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It's taken over conservative people's institutions which is what we're talking about here. Many conservatives used to attend my church, and many send their kids to public schools and join sports teams that have been taken over by this ideology.

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It may depend on what state you live in. I live in one of the most liberal states in the country. It is the conservatives who aren't buying into the insanity of the left.

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Yes. Places where people get to know each other and find common ground. Usurped by these ideologies.

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Exactly! Also places where people find comfort in difficult times, the inspiration to be a better person and the strength to go on. All taken away from us when we need it most.

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Why not try to find common ground with trans people? Why not be curious rather than allow yourself to be repulsed by people you aren't in community with?

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I WAS curious. That's how a bunch of gender fanatics managed to take over. I am no longer curious about people who assault their opponents and threaten to blow up libraries. Repulsion has nothing to do with it.

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Right. Those who are so quick to scream at others that they are transphobes or racists are obviously just projecting their own repressed feelings.

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Those words are best translated to heretic or blasphemer. Religious fanatics always scream at unbelievers. 🤷‍♀️

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Incidentally, I DO find common ground with people like Buck Angel and Blaire White.

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Depends on which conservatives. There's a flavor of this that calls itself libertarian.

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Trump

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Sometimes I think it's good to be a member of a church that is for the most part conducted in a language other than English, and its (long!) marriage service requires not even an "I do" of bride and groom.

I'm not a church goer, and neither were my parents except sometimes, but when I walk into a Greek Orthodox church I'm in a familiar, dependable space.

The Greek Orthodox Church takes no political stances, although Archbishop Iakovos of North and South America, before the patriarch in Constantinople split that role and made the position less powerful, marched with Martin Luther King Jr.

Trans stuff? BLM? Victim classes? It's all so transitory and meaningless. Orthodoxy is what it is and doesn't change and lets us live our lives. We can get divorced and still get remarried in the church. I have never heard of anyone getting expelled. Priests can marry unless they aspire to be bishops. Greek gay people who want to get married go to a justice of the peace, and I don't notice any prejudice or fulminations against gay people either. We don't hear a lot about damnation. The chants are beautiful. So are the Byzantine ikons.

It's pretty easy.

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Sounds like you just want a place where you can hate trans people (trans women in particular, classic) with impunity? I hope yall can realize that trans people deserve a safe place to worship and be as much as you do. Pluralism is hard. If you want tolerance, that's a two way street.

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Sounds like you are a true believer in the trans cult. In fact, there are 2 genders and you can't change which one you were born. I say this as someone who has a degree in Biology and Medicine. There is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. What people "hate" about this ideology, besides its absolute lunacy, is that it is being used to harm children. It's not hatred of "trans" people, nor is it fear. It's a feeling of helplessness while you watch the world celebrate the destruction of a fellow human being. Trans people DO deserve a place to worship, but more than that, they deserve to be told the truth.

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Feb 18·edited Feb 18

Gender affirmation is not the destruction of anything. Its a new lease on life. If this weren't the case we would see droves of bitter detransitioners, but that is simply not the case. Recent polling suggests that the vast majority of trans folks, upwards of 90 percent, are happier after transitioning.

If you were genuinely invested in this tradition you would be more curious about trans folks than you were obsessed by your own narrow understanding of the truth. You don't have the full picture. Neither do I, nor any of us for that matter. Compassion and trust ought to lead us, not fear and helplessness.

May you come back to Love and reconnect with the living tradition of curiosity grounded in kindness.

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I am not curious, nor am I afraid. I am a medical doctor, so I tend to look at things through the lens of what is scientifically true. Feelings are great, but one should not make life altering decisions on them alone. The truth is, we don't know the long term effects these "treatments" will have on children. It should be concerning to you and others that European countries who have been doing this for many more years than we have, are pulling back.

https://segm.org/segm-summary-sweden-prioritizes-therapy-curbs-hormones-for-gender-dysphoric-youth

I do feel deeply sorry for folks who are so unhappy with themselves that they would take manufactured chemicals and have surgery to try and alter who they are. And there are plenty of detransitioners out there who are suing those that hurried them down the road of "gender affirming" care. Young women who have had their breasts removed, well ok, they can have implants, but they will never breast feed their own child.

https://www.iwf.org/2023/02/07/identity-crisis-years-later-a-former-detransitioner-is-still-recovering-from-hormones-surgery/

Again, I am not concerned for full grown adults who are capable of weighing the pros and cons and making an informed choice. I am deeply concerned for teenagers who are allowed to make life altering decisions, that are in fact not reversible, and that they do not fully understand.

It is not just the children, though. This ideology is destroying families. If you haven't, you should check out the PITT Substack. It is heartbreaking.

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Mar 16·edited Mar 16

Hold on! There's a leap here. We're using adult transgender experiences to understand what's best for young children transitioning. Let's break this down: Memories and bias: Adults reflecting on their childhood have years of experience coloring their memories. A child's understanding of gender is still forming. Shifting landscape: The social landscape for transgender adults today is vastly different from when many older adults transitioned. Their experiences might not translate well. Medical choices: Adults make informed decisions about their bodies. This is different from pre-pubescent kids facing potentially irreversible medical interventions. Informed consent: Can a young child truly grasp the lifelong ramifications of transitioning? This is complex with no easy answers. Social factors: Is the child's desire to transition intrinsic, influenced by peers, trends, pressures they might not fully comprehend? Reversibility: Some interventions are reversible, others are not. Weighing the risks and benefits for a child requires careful consideration. Long-term data: We lack research on long-term outcomes for kids who transition medically at young ages. This lack of data makes decision-making difficult. Crux of the matter: Who benefits? Are medical decisions best for the child, or are there external agendas at play? This needs exploration... Alternative approaches: Shouldn't a child have space to explore gender identity without immediate medical intervention? And what about those that simply needed help with depression or just feeling like needing to belong where's the compassionate in that Balancing compassion and caution: How do we offer support for a child's struggle, exercising caution to avoid potentially harmful, irreversible actions? And as far as happiness in terms of long term we just don't know! there's no science on it https://segm.org/regret-detransition-rate-unknown

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We ARE seeing droves of detransitioners. They're just expelled from your "safe spaces". Detransitioners are deeply unwelcome in any "gender affirming" space. The Trans Journalists Style Guide explicitly calls for the censorship and silencing of detransitioner stories.

Apostasy will not be tolerated.

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"Yall"?

You from the South, or south Madison, Wisconsin? Or south something?

I do not mind people from certain regions using regionalisms in common speech, but appropriating someone else's slang or, if you're from the South, using in your writing a slang expression you might not normally use in order to try to make a point, is really precious.

If you're from Georgia, sorry. Still, I've visited the South a lot and don't hear it. My Tennessee cousin doesn't say it either.

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The comment below is where I get lost. Another big thing about UUism is a belief in the Principle of democracy. The way the democratic UU faith is going is the same way the whole world is going-trying for the first time in history to intentionally include perspectives that have never had a voice. So those voices now have a voice, and you don't like what they're saying, so...where is the problem?

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The problem is that there is no questioning allowed. In regards to the trans movement any comment critical of the trans movement is labeled trans-phobic and hate speech. There is no place for debate.

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Good call. Cloak the issue/rhetoric in democracy and the over used inclusivity wording. It is debate, evidence based, fact driven argument that should be presented. Medical science anyone? Gender dysphoria, which was originally Gender ID, is totally different from removal of body parts with respect to your aforementioned comment.

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Greeks don't question Greek Orthodoxy. Many of us who might not like certain aspects of its dogma nevertheless find comfort in the liturgy and rituals familiar to and beloved by our grandparents (when we do attend church) and go about our daily business as we need to. It works out.

I guess it's like cafeteria Catholics -- except that Catholicism makes noises about relevancy and cultural issues, and Catholics debate them. The Greek Orthodox Church is tolerant of its wayward and sporadic members but stands rooted in its history.

I hope it is never silly enough to repair the schism and team up with Rome.

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Exactly; and don't even think about criticizing Islam!

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The existence of trans people is not a matter of debate. What, do you think you can debate someone into denying their own experience? We have a word for that. It's called gaslighting.

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This post is not debating the existence of trans people. Transgender people have been part of the human community for thousands of years and they deserve dignity, respect and all civil rights (except when those rights encroach upon the hard won rights of natal women such as in sports and battered women's shelters) however, what desperately needs debate is the notion that drugs, chemicals and surgery (all of which are irreversible and have serious health risks), are the best treatment for gender dysphoria, especially in young people and adolescents, population groups that are not able to understand the full ramifications of irreversible decisions that will affect the rest of their lives. There are many ways to support, validate, and respect gender non-conformity without the necessity to tamper with healthy young bodies.

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It's factually incorrect that there are perspectives now being included that have never had a voice. The perspectives you talk about have always had a voice. They've just not been permitted to silence others. They call their new power "inclusion" and "centering the marginalized."

I call it totalitarian control by an unpopular minority opinion.

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The mob that silences dissent is not democracy.

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Democracy that doesn't seek to heed the call from the margins is just mob rule. Democracy is the best system, but it's flawed when we become uncurious about our neighbor and entrenched with our own ideas.

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If you don't see the problem, it's pointless to engage this question.

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Let's not give up so easily. We must stay engaged with the people we share our piece of society with even when they say false things.

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Yep. So glad those voices finally getting the opportunity to say “every voice but ours is False, every view but ours is morally debased, all the world but us is racist, no one except us deserves to be employed, no one can help with society’s problems except by doing what we say without questioning, and the proper activity of any voice but ours is to revile itself for our pleasure.” Great to see these folks flourish.

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It's interesting that you start with a false characterization of the comment you're replying to and the original post as well. It's clear that the objection is not to inclusion of marginalized voices but the intolerance for other voices.

So why are you mischaracterizing?

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Those "marginalized voices" have totalitarian ambitions, and zero interest in including other perspectives.

It appears that you have never lived in an area where those "marginalized voices" have gained control over institutions of power. I have. I still do. B Smith's characterization is exactly correct.

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