Well, if that's where you want to go with this, you may want to look into some of the funding sources of Queer fanaticism. The two issues are surprisingly intertwined.
Also, you started with a complaint about door-to-door proselytizers, then switched to the extremist aspects of the Israeli government. Moved the goalposts
Well, if that's where you want to go with this, you may want to look into some of the funding sources of Queer fanaticism. The two issues are surprisingly intertwined.
Also, you started with a complaint about door-to-door proselytizers, then switched to the extremist aspects of the Israeli government. Moved the goalposts
I started with a protest about *Christians* evangelizing their perversions in public, specifically a door to door proselytizer who was hypocritical. Then I referenced American *Christians* (within the same “goal post”)who are providing the weapons and funding to the democratically elected government of Israel to carry out a genocide and *publicly* preaching that anyone who criticizes Zionism is a Nazi-like racist, aka anti semite.
There is nothing “extremist” about the people who are carrying out the genocide if they are relatively popular. The vast majority of Israeli Jews(and who are mostly Zionists), based on polls, do not think the force used by the IDF is excessive and lots think it was even insufficient.
And the Christian Zionists, aka most of our congress and the executive branch of the US government, are meaningfully no less responsible for the genocide than Likud because without the weapons and money they are eagerly giving it could not be carried out; and they are well aware of what is happening. Biden, a Christian Zionist, deserves an ICC arrest warrant as much as Netanyahu, a Jewish Zionist.
Both think that Jews have a “natural and historic right to Palestine” (per the Israel Declaration of Independence) because mythologically Jews ruled Palestine thousands of years ago because Moses and his followers committed genocide to acquire it. And that belief, Zionism, is being expressed through genocide today in a similar way.
And that Christian proselytizer was telling me that I should revere the book that the Zionists believe establishes their right to commit genocide — as it is written explicitely in it that the land of Palestine was given to Israel by an imaginary god who is fond of genocide and human sacrifices. And they want to teach children to worship that character.
I never moved the goal post.
And I don’t think the issues are as intertwined as you seem to believe. Zionists disagree on many issues, so it’s not surprising that some Zionists support the postmodern gender stuff, and other Zionists don’t support it but still think it is useful for propaganda and pink washing Israel, while others are blatantly hostile to it. All Zionists though, because they are Zionists, think Jews have a right to an ethno-theocratic apartheid state in Palestine.
Overall, your goalpost appears to be "Christians are genocidal, perverted, hypocritical, and generally evil." It is true you haven't moved this goalpost.
It's an interesting argument, generally made by one religious fanatic about members of a competing religion.
Check out the book "Strange Rites: New Religions for a Godless World." It might clarify the details of your current faith and help you come to honesty about that faith.
Believe as you wish, but please permit others the same dignity.
lol, you have inferred my religion by what exactly? Because I dislike Christianity? And dislike the foundational myth that is a necessary condition in the genocide that is currently being funded by the us government?
Disclosure: I am not “anti religion” or “anti faith”. I don’t need to read a book about modern religions to understand my own. But Im definitely anti worshiping Yahweh, an imaginary god who allegedly commanded genocide and is fond of human sacrifices.
And your last sentence is internally contradictory. If I believe that we ought not to permit others the “same dignity” for *anything* they happen to believe or revere, say like Nazis or Zionists, your sentiment is disparaging toward what I believe, ie not permitting it the same dignity. Don’t pretend to be equally approving of all belief. A) because it is a lie. B) it is impossible C) because it is immoral.
It’s immoral to view all ideology as worthy of dignity. That itself is an ideology, and not one worthy of respect.
Not all Christians are genocidal, perverted, or evil( I’m ambivalent about whether they are all hypocritical). But they all worship a character in a book that is. Thus it isn’t at all surprising that some of them do come out to be an image of that idol. If people revere Stalin, some of those people are probably gonna be like Stalin. To reduce that chance, we should probably disparage worshipping Stalin, and not just be like “oh shmoe, leave the Stalin worshippers alone; Stalin worship deserves the same dignity as anything else; except of course that juddgggy wudgy *fanatical* view *you* have, but not me. Go read this book and educate yourself unenlightened one”.
Maybe one day you will have clarity about your own feelings and not misrepresent them. Talking about how bad “Queer” ideology is but disparaging me for talking about how bad Christianity is because I don’t give it “equal” dignity with my own is hypocritical. You obviously don’t give “Queer” ideology equal dignity. You have even had the gall to suggest it is worse than Christian Zionism, which is currently responsible for a genocide. Fanatic, pleeease.
I don't have a problem with Queer Theorists hanging out at coffeehouses pontificating on their philosophy. They're harmless in that context. Or at least, they harm no one but themselves, which I consider to be their right.
I do have a serious problem with Queer ideologues taking over major institutions of power through deception, them using that power to forcibly impose their beliefs on unwilling people.
I'm not a fan of theocracy. ANY theocracy. Even atheistic theocracies. When ANY ideology criminalizes heresy, we're going bad places.
If Christians just pontificated on their philosophy in coffee houses I’d think their philosophy was degenerate, but I’d still consider that they have the right to do it, just like Nazis. But I wouldn’t consider them a political menace unless they began to influence government. Which they already do more than post modern gender cultists.
Postmodernist gender cultists get their flag on government buildings, their doctrine written into law, and blasphemy prosecuted as a "hate crime."
Blasphemy against all forms of Christianity remain legal, celebrated, and widely encouraged.
The Israel situation is complicated, and people are flipping positions so fast it's making me dizzy. It's just too complicated to discuss in a meaningful way in a comment thread.
Anti Zionism is legal, celebrated, and widely encouraged? The House didnt just pass a bill defining anti-zionism, including criticism of Israel, as anti-semitism? Comgress hasn't given more American taxes as financial and military aid to Israel, a religious symbol for millions of American Christians and Jews and a ethno-theocracy, than any other country, despite its relatively small size and wealth, since its inception? “In god we trust” is not on our currency? “Under god” is not in the pledge of allegiance? You apparently don’t live in the US. As much as I don’t like the post modern gender cult, I recognize that that there are greater potential social and legal repercussions to the blasphemy of Israel, a central symbol of Christianity and Judaism than the blasphemy of the gender cult.
There is nothing complicated by the fact that Zionists, Christian and Jewish, are the primary supporters in congress, the executive branch, and the general population of a genocide. Furthermore, the vast majority of congress is Christian or Jewish -- 94%, and there no sitting congressmembers Im aware that are openly atheist. That of course isnt because there arent any atheist politicians, but because as any good student of Machiavelli knows, its essential for princes to appear like they share the religion of the public, because the public generally only cares about appearances. Thus, Trump and Obama and Clinton are Christians. And enough of the public has a bigotry against atheists to the degree they wouldn't vote for one even if they were otherwise virtuous people who cared about the best interests of Americans so that it becomes political suicide to run for congress and openly be an atheist. Despite what we hear about the "godlessness" that is always about to take over the country, the vast majority of Americans count themselves as theists.
I don’t know what position flipping you are talking about. Last time I checked the vast majority of congress and the executive is just as committed to funding and arming a genocidal regime today as it was 8 months ago. I wish you were right that people were flipping positions fast, but it is not reality. Although, it is true that the sentiment of the general public is definitely drifting further toward opposition to the genocide; unfortunately, politicians only respond to the general public when its going to affect their chances of winning elections, and people like yourself are still more concerned about things like gender ideology than our government funding a genocide. Because, after all, the genocide is not happening in your town like the drag queen story hour, right?
Why you think coercing people to embrace gender ideology is less complicated than the morality of systematically starving and bombing millions of civilians in a decimated imprisoned ghetto bewilders and disheartens me. Id also like to point out, all this time you badgering me about my atheism and antipathy toward Yahweh and Christianity, it doesn't seem like it dawned on you that Palestinians are mostly Muslim, and some Christian -- in other words, they worship Yahweh. I might disdain Yahweh as a character, and recognize the reverence of him as a necessary contributing factor to the genocide being carried out by Israel and the US governments, but it doesn't mean I think our government should carry out a genocide against the infants of Palestinian Muslims. I don't share the sentiment of Zionists that we should kill all the infants of "Amalek"
If you are simply uninformed about what is happening and the history of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, then just say that. There are informative resources I can share. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that your attitude is not from a defect of your soul, but simply rectifiable ignorance. It isnt easy or fun keeping up with the various horrors the US government contributes to around the world, but it is honorable. We shouldn't let drag queens distract us from the opportunity to be more knowledgeable citizens of the most powerful republic in the world and help ensure, despite as little a difference it sometimes seems it may make, that monsters do not wield the power.
The situations around the world are complex, and I don't trust any of my sources of information. Lacking reliable information, I will defer to those who have first hand information. In addition, I have no ability to directly influence what's happening in the Middle East. I don't even have the ability to help donate humanitarian aid. I choose to focus my efforts on things I CAN impact and topics in which I DO have direct information.
The Queer cult is not about drag queens. It's an ideology of destruction that has no stopping point. Targets include all education, all law enforcement, the practice of science, families, childhood, and humanity itself. It also embraces genocide as a legitimate political tool. The concept of universal human value is completely foreign within the ideology. Everything is about destruction of oppression patterns, which requires destruction of people. It is an endless purity spiral of pain and the celebration of death.
That's WHY Queer ideology is so pro-Palestine at the moment: lots of dead people. Dead people make useful props. Dead people have no opinions of their own, so can be assigned to the proper positions. A living, thriving Palestinian nation would be a massive threat to Queer Ideology. The instant a functional Palestinian nation emerged, it would be branded hateful and transphobic, and efforts would be made to destroy it.
So the world is too complex to know, do, or say anything about the genocide of Palestinians, but you are clairvoyant to the degree that you predict if Palestine is liberated, gender cultists would try to destroy it because it would be hateful toward trans people? It just sounds like you don't care about what the US government does to Palestinians; and claims about uncertainty and a lack of reliable information is just a way to excuse your apathy or even possibly antipathy, despite your disingenuous claims to an immoral and incoherent dogma about "universal human value." You can't even get your head out of a drag queens butt long enough to read multiple ngo reports about people starving, watch clips of soldiers singing about genocide, and military commanders explicitly telling the world they are going to create famine, to see dead Palestinians as anything more than props for a cult you despise. "Universal human value"; so ridiculous.
And why don't you have the ability to donate humanitarian aid? Donate to doctors without borders, like me:
Doctors without borders is a fantastic organization, I have been a donor for years. I have no idea if they're successfully getting anything into Gaza. 🤷♀️
I don't have enough information to infer your religion. There are several different secular religions that share your intense distaste for the Judeo-Christian concept of God.
I can say that this kind of vehemence regarding the wrongness and badness of THEM is characteristic of an ideology that seeks to convert all others to the way of Truth. By force if necessary. That's a dynamic of religious fanaticism and/or cultish influence. No God required.
For example, Maoism is a religion. Vehemently atheistic, it provides meaning, purpose, a sense of community, and ritual. Also believes it is doing good things by "freeing" people from "oppression" through Struggle Sessions.
It's entirely possible to be a religious fanatic and an atheist at the same time. All it takes is an intense certainty of rightness and a belief that it's moral to convert others by force.
That’s some super atrocious moral reasoning you have there. Did you know Stalinists had an intense distaste for Nazism? Do you infer that people are Stalinists if they have a “vehemence” regarding the wrongness of Nazism or Hitler?
Bringing up Mao has absolutely no rational connection to anything I’ve said. I think Mao is a villain just like Yahweh and Voldemort.
Probably less than most human beings. Having been through a couple of worldview crises, I have given up on seeking certainty. When "I don't know" is a legitimate answer, it removes a major motivation for self-deception.
Well, if you are lying to yourself about whether you actually “don’t know”, it doesn’t make any difference. Sounds like it is just another worldview you have adopted. You appear to hold many beliefs you “don’t know” of. When “I don’t know” is a dogma, it adds a major motivation for self-deception.
The folks at your door were most likely Jehovah's Witnesses. They've got a lot of odd beliefs, but they also have a doctrine of avoiding politics. ALL politics. They're not providing weapons and funding to anyone.
If it was Mormons, they're more likely to be supporting Israel.
"American Christians" are not a monolith. Most don't engage in door to door proselytizing at all.
They actually were Jehovah Witnesses. However there is no way to “avoid politics”. Being “political neutral” is a political stance, especially when lots of political stuff is happening. If someone is drowning, and we remain “neutral” and do nothing, that is an active choice, and, depending on how much risk it would put us in to save them (and who they are), could be morally detestable.
Walking around the world telling people to worship a character who commands genocide when genocide is being committed by people who worship that same character is immoral. They are providing moral support for an immoral character. Just like it would be immoral for people to walk around the world telling people to worship Hitler, but then themselves be supposedly “politically neutral.” Doesn’t work like that. They certainly aren’t as morally culpable as the Christian Zionists who are directly and explicitly expressing their praise of the behavior of modern Israel, but their evangelizing is still immoral, and it should be rebuked.
And of course, while not all Christian sects evangelize the same way as JWs do, most do in some way. It’s after all a fundamental element of Christian traditional ideology— that evangelism is commanded by Jesus. It’s in the gospels. Which is why we won’t see some Christian sects at our doorstep, but we will still see them at a college, homeless shelter, abortion clinic, bookstore, on our television screen, or a billboard, telling people they ought to worship Yahweh, their genocidal Lord and Master. When I was in college, every day I walked through the campus, I walked by various Christian sects, including Zionist sects, that were promoting the worship of Yahweh. “American Christians” are not a monolith but they all revere Yahweh, which is sufficient to disparage. Just as revering Hitler is sufficient to disparage. Sounds like you might disagree though and think we should give that reverence equal dignity. Which, in my religion, is gross.
Sounds like you believe intensely that Yahweh is a real person, force, or entity, you just define it as evil. The language you use about Christians is similar to the language Evangelical Christians use about Satanists.
Interesting that your reading comprehension is so poor.
“They are providing moral support for an immoral character.”
Do Christian evangelists refer to Satan as a “character”? No, they think Satan is real.
I certainly don’t consider a fictional *character* in a work of pseudo history and literature a real force or entity, but the people who worship him do. If there were people who truly believed Voldemort were returning and they wanted to please him, I’d disparage that as well. And you were the first to refer to anything as “evil” in this conversation, not me. But I have no problem assigning that word to a character who commands genocide; just like I wouldn’t have a problem assigning it to Voldemort. It just implies a kind of extreme moral depravity.
Satanists are some tiny irrelevant cult that has no meaningful affect on the world. Christians are arguably the most powerful cult in the world. And a powerful sect of Christians are currently conducting a genocide. And the main character of the book they revere allegedly commanded it in the same geographical region they are carrying it out today. It’s interesting you are so eager to defend it and disparage me for being passionate about it. That says nothing about Yahweh, which doesn’t exist, but it does say a lot about you.
Not clear on how one provides moral support to EITHER a deity OR a fictional character. Perhaps we're using different definitions of the phrase "moral support."
The description in Wikipedia is adequate actually(I don’t view it as an authority, but it still counts for an example of how I’m using it):
“Moral support is a way of giving support to a person or cause, or to one side in a conflict, without making any contribution beyond the emotional or psychological value of the encouragement by supporting them.”
Promoting and honoring Yahweh is providing moral support to a particular “cause” — specifically the worship of Yahweh and allegiance to the myths and morals that he is connected to, such as the genocide of Canaanites or the murder of homosexuals. Just like honoring Hitler or disparaging moral condemnation of him would be providing moral support to the ideology he promoted. Or promoting and honoring Voldemort would be providing moral support to the ideology he promoted. When someone honors Yahweh, or disparages the moral condemnation of him, such as what you are doing, they are providing moral support to the ideology he allegedly promoted. Doesn’t matter if what a person is supporting is fictional.
It’s a fiction that a man can become a woman by changing his pronoun. That doesn’t mean a person can’t give moral support to it. It’s quite common in fact for people to say nonsense like “transwomen are women”, which is a form of moral support. If there is a novel with a character in it and that character zealously promotes the idea that 10 year old boys should get their genitals removed because they like the color pink, and actually performs the operations, and people are like “we should give equal dignity to the belief that the character is deserving of worship and reverence”, those people are giving post modern gender ideology moral support. They are giving moral support to something that *should be* disparaged. I’d wager we both think that revering that character should be disparaged; where we differ is that when someone reveres Yahweh, a character who commanded the genocide and slavery of infants, you think that that it should be given respect.
Without moral support a cause will weaken, if not die. Which is why it’s important to disparage the moral support of immoral causes. Which you are horribly failing at when you provide moral support for the reverence of one of the most evil characters ever imagined by humans. I’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt you are just deeply ignorant of the horrific things that Yahweh says and does in the Bible, and you aren’t a fan of wanton torture, genocide, slavery, and human sacrifice, and you just unfortunately have been imbibing Yahweh apologia without actually going to the source, like a muggle Voldemort apologist who has never read Harry Potter but is really committed to the foolish and pernicious dogma of giving equal dignity to all ideology.
“Ooohhhh the Death Eaters told me Tom Riddle was a poor little orphan boy who just wants wizards to take care of us.” Stfu he is the Dark Lord.
So "moral support" and "affirmation of doctrine" and "proselytizing" are all synonyms for you. Gotcha.
They are not for me. In my definition, "the psychological value of encouragement" can only be provided to a living thing that has a psychology. One may give blanket support to all persons in a particular category, but not to the category itself. Subtle distinction, I suppose. But meaningful to me. 🤷♀️
When a person affirms or defends a doctrine, or honors a fictional character, in the social presence of others, it provides psychological encouragement to "a living thing that has a psychology" -- that is to other people listening, not the fictional character. It inspires other people to potentially embrace the behavior of the character or follow the doctrine or not resist the character or disagree with the doctrine. We can call that abracadabra, it doesnt matter -- when someone does it for Yahweh, Hitler, or Voldemort, it is immoral.
We've established that you consider certain things to be pure evil that morally must be opposed. Is there a corollary? Where do you see pure good that morally MUST be affirmed?
Well, if that's where you want to go with this, you may want to look into some of the funding sources of Queer fanaticism. The two issues are surprisingly intertwined.
Also, you started with a complaint about door-to-door proselytizers, then switched to the extremist aspects of the Israeli government. Moved the goalposts
I started with a protest about *Christians* evangelizing their perversions in public, specifically a door to door proselytizer who was hypocritical. Then I referenced American *Christians* (within the same “goal post”)who are providing the weapons and funding to the democratically elected government of Israel to carry out a genocide and *publicly* preaching that anyone who criticizes Zionism is a Nazi-like racist, aka anti semite.
There is nothing “extremist” about the people who are carrying out the genocide if they are relatively popular. The vast majority of Israeli Jews(and who are mostly Zionists), based on polls, do not think the force used by the IDF is excessive and lots think it was even insufficient.
And the Christian Zionists, aka most of our congress and the executive branch of the US government, are meaningfully no less responsible for the genocide than Likud because without the weapons and money they are eagerly giving it could not be carried out; and they are well aware of what is happening. Biden, a Christian Zionist, deserves an ICC arrest warrant as much as Netanyahu, a Jewish Zionist.
Both think that Jews have a “natural and historic right to Palestine” (per the Israel Declaration of Independence) because mythologically Jews ruled Palestine thousands of years ago because Moses and his followers committed genocide to acquire it. And that belief, Zionism, is being expressed through genocide today in a similar way.
And that Christian proselytizer was telling me that I should revere the book that the Zionists believe establishes their right to commit genocide — as it is written explicitely in it that the land of Palestine was given to Israel by an imaginary god who is fond of genocide and human sacrifices. And they want to teach children to worship that character.
I never moved the goal post.
And I don’t think the issues are as intertwined as you seem to believe. Zionists disagree on many issues, so it’s not surprising that some Zionists support the postmodern gender stuff, and other Zionists don’t support it but still think it is useful for propaganda and pink washing Israel, while others are blatantly hostile to it. All Zionists though, because they are Zionists, think Jews have a right to an ethno-theocratic apartheid state in Palestine.
Overall, your goalpost appears to be "Christians are genocidal, perverted, hypocritical, and generally evil." It is true you haven't moved this goalpost.
It's an interesting argument, generally made by one religious fanatic about members of a competing religion.
Check out the book "Strange Rites: New Religions for a Godless World." It might clarify the details of your current faith and help you come to honesty about that faith.
Believe as you wish, but please permit others the same dignity.
lol, you have inferred my religion by what exactly? Because I dislike Christianity? And dislike the foundational myth that is a necessary condition in the genocide that is currently being funded by the us government?
Disclosure: I am not “anti religion” or “anti faith”. I don’t need to read a book about modern religions to understand my own. But Im definitely anti worshiping Yahweh, an imaginary god who allegedly commanded genocide and is fond of human sacrifices.
And your last sentence is internally contradictory. If I believe that we ought not to permit others the “same dignity” for *anything* they happen to believe or revere, say like Nazis or Zionists, your sentiment is disparaging toward what I believe, ie not permitting it the same dignity. Don’t pretend to be equally approving of all belief. A) because it is a lie. B) it is impossible C) because it is immoral.
It’s immoral to view all ideology as worthy of dignity. That itself is an ideology, and not one worthy of respect.
Not all Christians are genocidal, perverted, or evil( I’m ambivalent about whether they are all hypocritical). But they all worship a character in a book that is. Thus it isn’t at all surprising that some of them do come out to be an image of that idol. If people revere Stalin, some of those people are probably gonna be like Stalin. To reduce that chance, we should probably disparage worshipping Stalin, and not just be like “oh shmoe, leave the Stalin worshippers alone; Stalin worship deserves the same dignity as anything else; except of course that juddgggy wudgy *fanatical* view *you* have, but not me. Go read this book and educate yourself unenlightened one”.
Maybe one day you will have clarity about your own feelings and not misrepresent them. Talking about how bad “Queer” ideology is but disparaging me for talking about how bad Christianity is because I don’t give it “equal” dignity with my own is hypocritical. You obviously don’t give “Queer” ideology equal dignity. You have even had the gall to suggest it is worse than Christian Zionism, which is currently responsible for a genocide. Fanatic, pleeease.
I don't have a problem with Queer Theorists hanging out at coffeehouses pontificating on their philosophy. They're harmless in that context. Or at least, they harm no one but themselves, which I consider to be their right.
I do have a serious problem with Queer ideologues taking over major institutions of power through deception, them using that power to forcibly impose their beliefs on unwilling people.
I'm not a fan of theocracy. ANY theocracy. Even atheistic theocracies. When ANY ideology criminalizes heresy, we're going bad places.
If Christians just pontificated on their philosophy in coffee houses I’d think their philosophy was degenerate, but I’d still consider that they have the right to do it, just like Nazis. But I wouldn’t consider them a political menace unless they began to influence government. Which they already do more than post modern gender cultists.
Postmodernist gender cultists get their flag on government buildings, their doctrine written into law, and blasphemy prosecuted as a "hate crime."
Blasphemy against all forms of Christianity remain legal, celebrated, and widely encouraged.
The Israel situation is complicated, and people are flipping positions so fast it's making me dizzy. It's just too complicated to discuss in a meaningful way in a comment thread.
Anti Zionism is legal, celebrated, and widely encouraged? The House didnt just pass a bill defining anti-zionism, including criticism of Israel, as anti-semitism? Comgress hasn't given more American taxes as financial and military aid to Israel, a religious symbol for millions of American Christians and Jews and a ethno-theocracy, than any other country, despite its relatively small size and wealth, since its inception? “In god we trust” is not on our currency? “Under god” is not in the pledge of allegiance? You apparently don’t live in the US. As much as I don’t like the post modern gender cult, I recognize that that there are greater potential social and legal repercussions to the blasphemy of Israel, a central symbol of Christianity and Judaism than the blasphemy of the gender cult.
There is nothing complicated by the fact that Zionists, Christian and Jewish, are the primary supporters in congress, the executive branch, and the general population of a genocide. Furthermore, the vast majority of congress is Christian or Jewish -- 94%, and there no sitting congressmembers Im aware that are openly atheist. That of course isnt because there arent any atheist politicians, but because as any good student of Machiavelli knows, its essential for princes to appear like they share the religion of the public, because the public generally only cares about appearances. Thus, Trump and Obama and Clinton are Christians. And enough of the public has a bigotry against atheists to the degree they wouldn't vote for one even if they were otherwise virtuous people who cared about the best interests of Americans so that it becomes political suicide to run for congress and openly be an atheist. Despite what we hear about the "godlessness" that is always about to take over the country, the vast majority of Americans count themselves as theists.
I don’t know what position flipping you are talking about. Last time I checked the vast majority of congress and the executive is just as committed to funding and arming a genocidal regime today as it was 8 months ago. I wish you were right that people were flipping positions fast, but it is not reality. Although, it is true that the sentiment of the general public is definitely drifting further toward opposition to the genocide; unfortunately, politicians only respond to the general public when its going to affect their chances of winning elections, and people like yourself are still more concerned about things like gender ideology than our government funding a genocide. Because, after all, the genocide is not happening in your town like the drag queen story hour, right?
Why you think coercing people to embrace gender ideology is less complicated than the morality of systematically starving and bombing millions of civilians in a decimated imprisoned ghetto bewilders and disheartens me. Id also like to point out, all this time you badgering me about my atheism and antipathy toward Yahweh and Christianity, it doesn't seem like it dawned on you that Palestinians are mostly Muslim, and some Christian -- in other words, they worship Yahweh. I might disdain Yahweh as a character, and recognize the reverence of him as a necessary contributing factor to the genocide being carried out by Israel and the US governments, but it doesn't mean I think our government should carry out a genocide against the infants of Palestinian Muslims. I don't share the sentiment of Zionists that we should kill all the infants of "Amalek"
If you are simply uninformed about what is happening and the history of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, then just say that. There are informative resources I can share. Ill give you the benefit of the doubt that your attitude is not from a defect of your soul, but simply rectifiable ignorance. It isnt easy or fun keeping up with the various horrors the US government contributes to around the world, but it is honorable. We shouldn't let drag queens distract us from the opportunity to be more knowledgeable citizens of the most powerful republic in the world and help ensure, despite as little a difference it sometimes seems it may make, that monsters do not wield the power.
The situations around the world are complex, and I don't trust any of my sources of information. Lacking reliable information, I will defer to those who have first hand information. In addition, I have no ability to directly influence what's happening in the Middle East. I don't even have the ability to help donate humanitarian aid. I choose to focus my efforts on things I CAN impact and topics in which I DO have direct information.
The Queer cult is not about drag queens. It's an ideology of destruction that has no stopping point. Targets include all education, all law enforcement, the practice of science, families, childhood, and humanity itself. It also embraces genocide as a legitimate political tool. The concept of universal human value is completely foreign within the ideology. Everything is about destruction of oppression patterns, which requires destruction of people. It is an endless purity spiral of pain and the celebration of death.
That's WHY Queer ideology is so pro-Palestine at the moment: lots of dead people. Dead people make useful props. Dead people have no opinions of their own, so can be assigned to the proper positions. A living, thriving Palestinian nation would be a massive threat to Queer Ideology. The instant a functional Palestinian nation emerged, it would be branded hateful and transphobic, and efforts would be made to destroy it.
So the world is too complex to know, do, or say anything about the genocide of Palestinians, but you are clairvoyant to the degree that you predict if Palestine is liberated, gender cultists would try to destroy it because it would be hateful toward trans people? It just sounds like you don't care about what the US government does to Palestinians; and claims about uncertainty and a lack of reliable information is just a way to excuse your apathy or even possibly antipathy, despite your disingenuous claims to an immoral and incoherent dogma about "universal human value." You can't even get your head out of a drag queens butt long enough to read multiple ngo reports about people starving, watch clips of soldiers singing about genocide, and military commanders explicitly telling the world they are going to create famine, to see dead Palestinians as anything more than props for a cult you despise. "Universal human value"; so ridiculous.
And why don't you have the ability to donate humanitarian aid? Donate to doctors without borders, like me:
https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org/secure/rr-donate-web
Doctors without borders is a fantastic organization, I have been a donor for years. I have no idea if they're successfully getting anything into Gaza. 🤷♀️
I don't have enough information to infer your religion. There are several different secular religions that share your intense distaste for the Judeo-Christian concept of God.
I can say that this kind of vehemence regarding the wrongness and badness of THEM is characteristic of an ideology that seeks to convert all others to the way of Truth. By force if necessary. That's a dynamic of religious fanaticism and/or cultish influence. No God required.
For example, Maoism is a religion. Vehemently atheistic, it provides meaning, purpose, a sense of community, and ritual. Also believes it is doing good things by "freeing" people from "oppression" through Struggle Sessions.
It's entirely possible to be a religious fanatic and an atheist at the same time. All it takes is an intense certainty of rightness and a belief that it's moral to convert others by force.
That’s some super atrocious moral reasoning you have there. Did you know Stalinists had an intense distaste for Nazism? Do you infer that people are Stalinists if they have a “vehemence” regarding the wrongness of Nazism or Hitler?
Bringing up Mao has absolutely no rational connection to anything I’ve said. I think Mao is a villain just like Yahweh and Voldemort.
It was just an example of atheistic secular totalitarian religion. Nothing more.
Do you lie to yourself often?
Probably less than most human beings. Having been through a couple of worldview crises, I have given up on seeking certainty. When "I don't know" is a legitimate answer, it removes a major motivation for self-deception.
Well, if you are lying to yourself about whether you actually “don’t know”, it doesn’t make any difference. Sounds like it is just another worldview you have adopted. You appear to hold many beliefs you “don’t know” of. When “I don’t know” is a dogma, it adds a major motivation for self-deception.
Everyone has a worldview. You do too. Everyone has a defensive reaction to perceived attacks on that worldview. I do too.
I'm trying to decipher your worldview and having very little luck. Pretty much just narrowed down a solid list of what you're opposed to.
The folks at your door were most likely Jehovah's Witnesses. They've got a lot of odd beliefs, but they also have a doctrine of avoiding politics. ALL politics. They're not providing weapons and funding to anyone.
If it was Mormons, they're more likely to be supporting Israel.
"American Christians" are not a monolith. Most don't engage in door to door proselytizing at all.
They actually were Jehovah Witnesses. However there is no way to “avoid politics”. Being “political neutral” is a political stance, especially when lots of political stuff is happening. If someone is drowning, and we remain “neutral” and do nothing, that is an active choice, and, depending on how much risk it would put us in to save them (and who they are), could be morally detestable.
Walking around the world telling people to worship a character who commands genocide when genocide is being committed by people who worship that same character is immoral. They are providing moral support for an immoral character. Just like it would be immoral for people to walk around the world telling people to worship Hitler, but then themselves be supposedly “politically neutral.” Doesn’t work like that. They certainly aren’t as morally culpable as the Christian Zionists who are directly and explicitly expressing their praise of the behavior of modern Israel, but their evangelizing is still immoral, and it should be rebuked.
And of course, while not all Christian sects evangelize the same way as JWs do, most do in some way. It’s after all a fundamental element of Christian traditional ideology— that evangelism is commanded by Jesus. It’s in the gospels. Which is why we won’t see some Christian sects at our doorstep, but we will still see them at a college, homeless shelter, abortion clinic, bookstore, on our television screen, or a billboard, telling people they ought to worship Yahweh, their genocidal Lord and Master. When I was in college, every day I walked through the campus, I walked by various Christian sects, including Zionist sects, that were promoting the worship of Yahweh. “American Christians” are not a monolith but they all revere Yahweh, which is sufficient to disparage. Just as revering Hitler is sufficient to disparage. Sounds like you might disagree though and think we should give that reverence equal dignity. Which, in my religion, is gross.
Sounds like you believe intensely that Yahweh is a real person, force, or entity, you just define it as evil. The language you use about Christians is similar to the language Evangelical Christians use about Satanists.
Interesting.
Interesting that your reading comprehension is so poor.
“They are providing moral support for an immoral character.”
Do Christian evangelists refer to Satan as a “character”? No, they think Satan is real.
I certainly don’t consider a fictional *character* in a work of pseudo history and literature a real force or entity, but the people who worship him do. If there were people who truly believed Voldemort were returning and they wanted to please him, I’d disparage that as well. And you were the first to refer to anything as “evil” in this conversation, not me. But I have no problem assigning that word to a character who commands genocide; just like I wouldn’t have a problem assigning it to Voldemort. It just implies a kind of extreme moral depravity.
Satanists are some tiny irrelevant cult that has no meaningful affect on the world. Christians are arguably the most powerful cult in the world. And a powerful sect of Christians are currently conducting a genocide. And the main character of the book they revere allegedly commanded it in the same geographical region they are carrying it out today. It’s interesting you are so eager to defend it and disparage me for being passionate about it. That says nothing about Yahweh, which doesn’t exist, but it does say a lot about you.
Not clear on how one provides moral support to EITHER a deity OR a fictional character. Perhaps we're using different definitions of the phrase "moral support."
The description in Wikipedia is adequate actually(I don’t view it as an authority, but it still counts for an example of how I’m using it):
“Moral support is a way of giving support to a person or cause, or to one side in a conflict, without making any contribution beyond the emotional or psychological value of the encouragement by supporting them.”
Promoting and honoring Yahweh is providing moral support to a particular “cause” — specifically the worship of Yahweh and allegiance to the myths and morals that he is connected to, such as the genocide of Canaanites or the murder of homosexuals. Just like honoring Hitler or disparaging moral condemnation of him would be providing moral support to the ideology he promoted. Or promoting and honoring Voldemort would be providing moral support to the ideology he promoted. When someone honors Yahweh, or disparages the moral condemnation of him, such as what you are doing, they are providing moral support to the ideology he allegedly promoted. Doesn’t matter if what a person is supporting is fictional.
It’s a fiction that a man can become a woman by changing his pronoun. That doesn’t mean a person can’t give moral support to it. It’s quite common in fact for people to say nonsense like “transwomen are women”, which is a form of moral support. If there is a novel with a character in it and that character zealously promotes the idea that 10 year old boys should get their genitals removed because they like the color pink, and actually performs the operations, and people are like “we should give equal dignity to the belief that the character is deserving of worship and reverence”, those people are giving post modern gender ideology moral support. They are giving moral support to something that *should be* disparaged. I’d wager we both think that revering that character should be disparaged; where we differ is that when someone reveres Yahweh, a character who commanded the genocide and slavery of infants, you think that that it should be given respect.
Without moral support a cause will weaken, if not die. Which is why it’s important to disparage the moral support of immoral causes. Which you are horribly failing at when you provide moral support for the reverence of one of the most evil characters ever imagined by humans. I’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt you are just deeply ignorant of the horrific things that Yahweh says and does in the Bible, and you aren’t a fan of wanton torture, genocide, slavery, and human sacrifice, and you just unfortunately have been imbibing Yahweh apologia without actually going to the source, like a muggle Voldemort apologist who has never read Harry Potter but is really committed to the foolish and pernicious dogma of giving equal dignity to all ideology.
“Ooohhhh the Death Eaters told me Tom Riddle was a poor little orphan boy who just wants wizards to take care of us.” Stfu he is the Dark Lord.
So "moral support" and "affirmation of doctrine" and "proselytizing" are all synonyms for you. Gotcha.
They are not for me. In my definition, "the psychological value of encouragement" can only be provided to a living thing that has a psychology. One may give blanket support to all persons in a particular category, but not to the category itself. Subtle distinction, I suppose. But meaningful to me. 🤷♀️
When a person affirms or defends a doctrine, or honors a fictional character, in the social presence of others, it provides psychological encouragement to "a living thing that has a psychology" -- that is to other people listening, not the fictional character. It inspires other people to potentially embrace the behavior of the character or follow the doctrine or not resist the character or disagree with the doctrine. We can call that abracadabra, it doesnt matter -- when someone does it for Yahweh, Hitler, or Voldemort, it is immoral.
We've established that you consider certain things to be pure evil that morally must be opposed. Is there a corollary? Where do you see pure good that morally MUST be affirmed?
Is there room for disagreement?